I do not believe that a personal god exists, and believe than nothing
exists in the universe which does not have to obey laws of nature. I'm
skeptical of all claims of miracles and the supernatural. In spite of
all this, I can't help but have superstitious thoughts from time to
time. They bear no relation to any belief system or dogma, although
they are similar to the idea of karma sometimes. For example, if I
happen be rude to a waiter or something, then later that day lose my
wallet, I might draw a connection and feel like I'm being punished.
Sometimes, though, it is not about reward/punishment at all. Following
a sports team is probably the best example of this. Let's say I'm at a
friend's house watching the Red Sox, and they lose. Then, the next
day, I'm at home watching the game, and the Sox win. All it would take
would be for them to lose one more time while I am at friend's house
for me to draw a connection between these unrelated events. I would
stay home to watch the rest of the games in the series, just in case.
Now, I am perfectly aware that this is not rational, and I never make
real decisions based on these imagined connections. These feeling do
seem perfectly instinctual, though, and I think worthy of discussion.
Why does my mind want to connect two seemingly unrelated things? Is it
based on some natural desire to be able to predict outcomes when there
really isn't enough information to do so? Is it more about the desire
to affect the outcomes in situations where you can't? Is it left over
from early childhood Catholic indoctrination? I would say the later is
not likely. In fact, I think my former beliefs are not the cause, but
the effect. My girlfriend was raised by agnostic parents and grew up
to get her PHD in biology at Harvard in May. She has absolutely no
knowledge of any religions, and does not belief in god. She is,
however, a die-hard Red Sox fan, and to whom my sports example
actually refers. All year long, she is completely rational and
sensible, until it's play-off time. When October comes around, she
might as well be carrying rosary beads.
I have a question to atheists out there. How many of you ever feel
superstitious? I'm not asking about whether or not you act on this
instinct, I just want to know if you have it, and how strong it is if
you do. I get the feeling it varies from person to person, and I'm
wondering how big of a role this plays in a person's ability to
believe in the supernatural. Could it be that the instinct is so
strong in some people that it is impossible for them NOT to believe?
Do skeptics have a genetic advantage, or is it all about education?
> I do not believe that a personal god exists, and believe than nothing
> exists in the universe which does not have to obey laws of nature. I'm
> skeptical of all claims of miracles and the supernatural.
My beliefs exactly.
> I have a question to atheists out there. How many of you ever feel
> superstitious? I'm not asking about whether or not you act on this
> instinct, I just want to know if you have it, and how strong it is if
> you do.
Yes, I do, and it bothers me that I do. I know it's totally
irrational, but I do not like the number 13.
This has no real effect on my life, but. . .if I am exercising on the
stationary bike, I do not like to stop at any number that is a
multiple of 13. I keep going until I get past that minute. If I am
leaving the house, I don't leave until a "not 13" number comes up on
the digital clock.
I worked as a temporary employee when I was looking for a permanent
job, and, you guessed it: one of my assignments was on the 13th
floor. Silly, but I was very glad when that one was over.
My family did buy a house with an address that ended in a 13. I
didn't like it, but I had no say in what house to buy. Unlucky? Not
really; nothing terrible happened to us while we lived there.
Funny you should talk about baseball; I have read that most baseball
players are _very_ superstitious. Baseball is like a religion to
me. . .hah! Right now I'm wearing my Cubs blue bracelet. I will not
take it off until their season is over. With any luck, this will be
in October.
Yeah, actually, I have the same problem with the number 13. Especially
on Friday the 13th. Most of my little superstitions are just good
clean fun, but the 13 one bothers me. This is only because I heard it
was the Catholic Church who convinced the world this number was
unlucky. I don't like to think that the church could have influence
over me. It is interesting how sports and superstition go hand in
hand. I think it is because you have hordes of people watching with
varying amounts of interest invested, and none of them can actually
affect the outcome. They are so isolated from what is actually
occurring on the field, but the fact that there's drama and action
makes them feel like they're a part of it. And then if you are at the
game live, there are ways you can actually affect the outcome.
Cheering loud for your team, wearing your teams colors, etc, all plays
a part in how the team performs. Not only that but fans' behavior
affects other fans' behavior. You could be at bar watching the game
with a bunch of strangers, all coming together for the same reason,
hoping for the same outcome.
On Aug 19, 3:10 pm, Medusa <Medusa4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I do not believe that a personal god exists, and believe than nothing
> > exists in the universe which does not have to obey laws of nature. I'm
> > skeptical of all claims of miracles and the supernatural.
> My beliefs exactly.
> > I have a question to atheists out there. How many of you ever feel
> > superstitious? I'm not asking about whether or not you act on this
> > instinct, I just want to know if you have it, and how strong it is if
> > you do.
> Yes, I do, and it bothers me that I do. I know it's totally
> irrational, but I do not like the number 13.
> This has no real effect on my life, but. . .if I am exercising on the
> stationary bike, I do not like to stop at any number that is a
> multiple of 13. I keep going until I get past that minute. If I am
> leaving the house, I don't leave until a "not 13" number comes up on
> the digital clock.
> I worked as a temporary employee when I was looking for a permanent
> job, and, you guessed it: one of my assignments was on the 13th
> floor. Silly, but I was very glad when that one was over.
> My family did buy a house with an address that ended in a 13. I
> didn't like it, but I had no say in what house to buy. Unlucky? Not
> really; nothing terrible happened to us while we lived there.
> Funny you should talk about baseball; I have read that most baseball
> players are _very_ superstitious. Baseball is like a religion to
> me. . .hah! Right now I'm wearing my Cubs blue bracelet. I will not
> take it off until their season is over. With any luck, this will be
> in October.
On Aug 19, 3:32 pm, flying gorilla <ryan.kle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, actually, I have the same problem with the number 13. Especially
> on Friday the 13th. Most of my little superstitions are just good
> clean fun, but the 13 one bothers me. This is only because I heard it
> was the Catholic Church who convinced the world this number was
> unlucky. I don't like to think that the church could have influence
There is story between the Church and Friday the 13, but it is a myth.
It has to do with the Pope ordering the arrest of all Knights Templar
in France on a Friday October 13, 1307 (13 ... 07...?!?!).
Another perfect example of intolerance and greed on the part of the
Catholic church...
__________________________________________
"I have at least, as I hope, done good service in aiding to overthrow
the dogma of separate creations."
-- Charles Darwin
Nah I don't really do anything superstitious. 'cept maybe trade dice
in an RPG on the grounds that it's cursed and hence rolls poorly; i'm
just joking, but it's fun to pretend to be superstitious.
On Aug 19, 10:55 am, flying gorilla <ryan.kle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I do not believe that a personal god exists, and believe than nothing
> exists in the universe which does not have to obey laws of nature. I'm
> skeptical of all claims of miracles and the supernatural. In spite of
> all this, I can't help but have superstitious thoughts from time to
> time. They bear no relation to any belief system or dogma, although
> they are similar to the idea of karma sometimes. For example, if I
> happen be rude to a waiter or something, then later that day lose my
> wallet, I might draw a connection and feel like I'm being punished.
> Sometimes, though, it is not about reward/punishment at all. Following
> a sports team is probably the best example of this. Let's say I'm at a
> friend's house watching the Red Sox, and they lose. Then, the next
> day, I'm at home watching the game, and the Sox win. All it would take
> would be for them to lose one more time while I am at friend's house
> for me to draw a connection between these unrelated events. I would
> stay home to watch the rest of the games in the series, just in case.
> Now, I am perfectly aware that this is not rational, and I never make
> real decisions based on these imagined connections. These feeling do
> seem perfectly instinctual, though, and I think worthy of discussion.
> Why does my mind want to connect two seemingly unrelated things? Is it
> based on some natural desire to be able to predict outcomes when there
> really isn't enough information to do so? Is it more about the desire
> to affect the outcomes in situations where you can't? Is it left over
> from early childhood Catholic indoctrination? I would say the later is
> not likely. In fact, I think my former beliefs are not the cause, but
> the effect. My girlfriend was raised by agnostic parents and grew up
> to get her PHD in biology at Harvard in May. She has absolutely no
> knowledge of any religions, and does not belief in god. She is,
> however, a die-hard Red Sox fan, and to whom my sports example
> actually refers. All year long, she is completely rational and
> sensible, until it's play-off time. When October comes around, she
> might as well be carrying rosary beads.
> I have a question to atheists out there. How many of you ever feel
> superstitious? I'm not asking about whether or not you act on this
> instinct, I just want to know if you have it, and how strong it is if
> you do. I get the feeling it varies from person to person, and I'm
> wondering how big of a role this plays in a person's ability to
> believe in the supernatural. Could it be that the instinct is so
> strong in some people that it is impossible for them NOT to believe?
> Do skeptics have a genetic advantage, or is it all about education?
Yeah, I heard that story about the Templar Knights, and I also heard
that it was a myth. But I was under the impression that the number 13
was formerly considered lucky by some pagan groups and the Church
tried to convince people that it was an unlucky number, just as they
tried to convince the pagans that most of their rituals were evil.
Then, of course, they absorbed the rituals that they knew the pagans
wouldn't part with.
On Aug 19, 3:52 pm, Answer_42 <ipu.belie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 19, 3:32 pm, flying gorilla <ryan.kle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Yeah, actually, I have the same problem with the number 13. Especially
> > on Friday the 13th. Most of my little superstitions are just good
> > clean fun, but the 13 one bothers me. This is only because I heard it
> > was the Catholic Church who convinced the world this number was
> > unlucky. I don't like to think that the church could have influence
> There is story between the Church and Friday the 13, but it is a myth.
> It has to do with the Pope ordering the arrest of all Knights Templar
> in France on a Friday October 13, 1307 (13 ... 07...?!?!).
> Another perfect example of intolerance and greed on the part of the
> Catholic church...
> __________________________________________
> "I have at least, as I hope, done good service in aiding to overthrow
> the dogma of separate creations."
> -- Charles Darwin
you are lucky, then. Although being familiar with what it is like to
feel superstitious can help one be able to relate to theists. If one
can get an understanding of why some of them think like they do, it
might be less frustrating to talk to them.
On Aug 19, 4:51 pm, Dag Yo <sir_ro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Nah I don't really do anything superstitious. 'cept maybe trade dice
> in an RPG on the grounds that it's cursed and hence rolls poorly; i'm
> just joking, but it's fun to pretend to be superstitious.
> On Aug 19, 10:55 am, flying gorilla <ryan.kle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I do not believe that a personal god exists, and believe than nothing
> > exists in the universe which does not have to obey laws of nature. I'm
> > skeptical of all claims of miracles and the supernatural. In spite of
> > all this, I can't help but have superstitious thoughts from time to
> > time. They bear no relation to any belief system or dogma, although
> > they are similar to the idea of karma sometimes. For example, if I
> > happen be rude to a waiter or something, then later that day lose my
> > wallet, I might draw a connection and feel like I'm being punished.
> > Sometimes, though, it is not about reward/punishment at all. Following
> > a sports team is probably the best example of this. Let's say I'm at a
> > friend's house watching the Red Sox, and they lose. Then, the next
> > day, I'm at home watching the game, and the Sox win. All it would take
> > would be for them to lose one more time while I am at friend's house
> > for me to draw a connection between these unrelated events. I would
> > stay home to watch the rest of the games in the series, just in case.
> > Now, I am perfectly aware that this is not rational, and I never make
> > real decisions based on these imagined connections. These feeling do
> > seem perfectly instinctual, though, and I think worthy of discussion.
> > Why does my mind want to connect two seemingly unrelated things? Is it
> > based on some natural desire to be able to predict outcomes when there
> > really isn't enough information to do so? Is it more about the desire
> > to affect the outcomes in situations where you can't? Is it left over
> > from early childhood Catholic indoctrination? I would say the later is
> > not likely. In fact, I think my former beliefs are not the cause, but
> > the effect. My girlfriend was raised by agnostic parents and grew up
> > to get her PHD in biology at Harvard in May. She has absolutely no
> > knowledge of any religions, and does not belief in god. She is,
> > however, a die-hard Red Sox fan, and to whom my sports example
> > actually refers. All year long, she is completely rational and
> > sensible, until it's play-off time. When October comes around, she
> > might as well be carrying rosary beads.
> > I have a question to atheists out there. How many of you ever feel
> > superstitious? I'm not asking about whether or not you act on this
> > instinct, I just want to know if you have it, and how strong it is if
> > you do. I get the feeling it varies from person to person, and I'm
> > wondering how big of a role this plays in a person's ability to
> > believe in the supernatural. Could it be that the instinct is so
> > strong in some people that it is impossible for them NOT to believe?
> > Do skeptics have a genetic advantage, or is it all about education?
> I do not believe that a personal god exists, and believe than nothing
> exists in the universe which does not have to obey laws of nature. I'm
> skeptical of all claims of miracles and the supernatural. In spite of
> all this, I can't help but have superstitious thoughts from time to
> time. They bear no relation to any belief system or dogma, although
> they are similar to the idea of karma sometimes. For example, if I
> happen be rude to a waiter or something, then later that day lose my
> wallet, I might draw a connection and feel like I'm being punished.
> Sometimes, though, it is not about reward/punishment at all. Following
> a sports team is probably the best example of this. Let's say I'm at a
> friend's house watching the Red Sox, and they lose. Then, the next
> day, I'm at home watching the game, and the Sox win. All it would take
> would be for them to lose one more time while I am at friend's house
> for me to draw a connection between these unrelated events. I would
> stay home to watch the rest of the games in the series, just in case.
> Now, I am perfectly aware that this is not rational, and I never make
> real decisions based on these imagined connections. These feeling do
> seem perfectly instinctual, though, and I think worthy of discussion.
> Why does my mind want to connect two seemingly unrelated things? Is it
> based on some natural desire to be able to predict outcomes when there
> really isn't enough information to do so? Is it more about the desire
> to affect the outcomes in situations where you can't? Is it left over
> from early childhood Catholic indoctrination? I would say the later is
> not likely. In fact, I think my former beliefs are not the cause, but
> the effect. My girlfriend was raised by agnostic parents and grew up
> to get her PHD in biology at Harvard in May.
Tell her congratulations ;).
> She has absolutely no
> knowledge of any religions, and does not belief in god. She is,
> however, a die-hard Red Sox fan, and to whom my sports example
> actually refers. All year long, she is completely rational and
> sensible, until it's play-off time. When October comes around, she
> might as well be carrying rosary beads.
Hehe, being a Red Sox fan myself, I understand the sentiment ;)
> I have a question to atheists out there. How many of you ever feel
> superstitious? I'm not asking about whether or not you act on this
> instinct, I just want to know if you have it, and how strong it is if
> you do. I get the feeling it varies from person to person, and I'm
> wondering how big of a role this plays in a person's ability to
> believe in the supernatural. Could it be that the instinct is so
> strong in some people that it is impossible for them NOT to believe?
> Do skeptics have a genetic advantage, or is it all about education?
We all feel superstitious from time to time. That's because we're
exceptionally good at making correlation observations. Think Pavlov's
dog... all of us draw causal connections between unrelated events
because we've evolved to do so. As such, we search for explanations
for things when there really isn't one. That's one of the major
psychological draws of religion.
On Aug 20, 9:11 am, flying gorilla <ryan.kle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, I heard that story about the Templar Knights, and I also heard
> that it was a myth. But I was under the impression that the number 13
Just to make sure... The Templar Knights story is not a myth.
Friday the 13th becoming unlucky because of that event is a myth.
That is what you meant, right?
> was formerly considered lucky by some pagan groups and the Church
> tried to convince people that it was an unlucky number, just as they
> tried to convince the pagans that most of their rituals were evil.
> Then, of course, they absorbed the rituals that they knew the pagans
> wouldn't part with.
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!
_____________________________
"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor
should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God."
-- George W. Bush
On 19 Aug, 18:55, flying gorilla <ryan.kle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a question to atheists out there. How many of you ever feel
> superstitious?
“The root of all superstitions is that men observe when a thing hits,
but not when it misses” - Francis Bacon
I think we all have moments when we feel superstitious, or afraid of
the dark, or some other irrational thing. Nothing to be ashamed of as
long as you recognise it and don't let it influence you.
I am sure these things, along with humanities unfortunate tendency to
create religions, are just artifacts of some useful cognitive short
cuts that kept our ancestors from getting eaten quite so often.
Sadly, I think one of the enduring cornerstones of my mother's faith
is that she can "pray for a car park" and she will invariably find one
shortly afterwards. I think she took it quite hard when I told her
that, in all my atheist years, I have never had to turn tail from a
shopping center because I could not find a park. When it comes to
superstition, I think Bacon nailed it.
