>> > And I was wondering, what are these problems? The only one I can >> > think of is the 'kitchen sink' problem, where every cool idea the >> > author's ever had shows up in one book, but I'm sure there's more. >> > Are there any sfnal specific first novel problems?
>> Telling instead of showing
>So Baen authors other than Bujold have written a lot of first novels.
It's a really common failing. I'm pretty certain that every published author has written at least one.
-- I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. (Bene Gesserit)
> I was reading one of the Locus First Novel threads, and LWE said:
> <i>I can report that > at least one person I trust says it's got all your standard > first-novel problems and isn't very good.</i>
> And I was wondering, what are these problems? The only one I can > think of is the 'kitchen sink' problem, where every cool idea the > author's ever had shows up in one book, but I'm sure there's more. > Are there any sfnal specific first novel problems?
As a first time novelist, I can tell you the mistakes I made. Not all of them related to just the writing. Someone on here made a point that the minor characters have to have some depth to them. No cardboard people, that was a good suggestion. A good editor is a must if it is your first novel. He or she can save you, or sink you. Have patience, as my book was rejected by several houses in six months, I self-published. That is almost the kiss of death. It infers that no publisher would bother to publish your work. I was severely chastised on here for my lack of patience. One woman told me that it took her four years to have her book accepted. But, as the publishers help with advertising, getting your book into the larger book chains, it has it's merits. Advertising is no cheap matter, and you need all the help you can get. Your readers have to idenify with your main character, and in order not to make him like you, you observe people, in airports, hotels, resturants, and make notes when you see someone that looks interesting. It will make it easier to come up with the characters you need. I made my main mistake in self-publishing, as I was inpatient, then the advertising was in my ballpark with me the only player. Those are the mistakes I made in my first novel, and they were costly mistakes. So take it from one who has been there. Dorothy J. Heydt on here is also someone to listen to, she is kind to first timers, and will give you straight information. Good luck, Ken Hogan
> >> > And I was wondering, what are these problems? The only one I can > >> > think of is the 'kitchen sink' problem, where every cool idea the > >> > author's ever had shows up in one book, but I'm sure there's more. > >> > Are there any sfnal specific first novel problems?
> >> Telling instead of showing
> >So Baen authors other than Bujold have written a lot of first novels.
> It's a really common failing. I'm pretty certain that every published > author has written at least one.
One, I don't mind. When most of their output tells instead of shows, then I mind.
veritas <khogan...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:be2cb4a3-4719-4ff1-931a- ea045e482...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
> A good editor is a must if it is your first novel. He or she can > save you, or sink you. Have patience, as my book was rejected by > several houses in six months, I self-published. That is almost the > kiss of death. It infers that no publisher would bother to publish > your work. I was severely chastised on here for my lack of patience.
As far as I can tell you've never considered the alternate explanation: that your novel wasn't bought because people don't want to pay money to read it.
There's no shame in that. Most people who like playing chess will never be Grand Masters. Most people who like playing baseball will never be in the Major Leagues. Most people who took drama in college will never be professional actors. Most people who like politics will never be Congressmen, Senators, or President.
I make those comparisons for a reason. It's not just that those fields have a similar attrition rate to writing fiction (ratio of people who try vs. people who succeed). It's also that in all those fields, responding to an initial failure by trying much, much harder generally doesn't work. Infinite willpower and refusal to give up aren't going to get you into professional baseball if you're 5'3" with bad knees. They just aren't. A certain level of natural talent has to go along with all that hard work.
(People make the opposite mistake too, of course. "I have a real gift for X. Now hand me my success, don't expect me to lift a finger toward it." Fails for the same reason -- there are people out there with both talent AND practice, more than enough of them to fill all available slots.)
Another thing about those fields I compare to fiction writing -- none of them is The Only Way to Be A Successful Person. Nor is getting a novel published. I suggest trying some alternate careers and hobbies.
On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 09:19:38 -0500, Louann Miller <louan...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>veritas <khogan...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:be2cb4a3-4719-4ff1-931a- >ea045e482...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
>> A good editor is a must if it is your first novel. He or she can >> save you, or sink you. Have patience, as my book was rejected by >> several houses in six months, I self-published. That is almost the >> kiss of death. It infers that no publisher would bother to publish >> your work.
Implies, not infers.
>I make those comparisons for a reason. It's not just that those fields >have a similar attrition rate to writing fiction (ratio of people who try >vs. people who succeed). It's also that in all those fields, responding >to an initial failure by trying much, much harder generally doesn't work. >Infinite willpower and refusal to give up aren't going to get you into >professional baseball if you're 5'3" with bad knees. They just aren't. A >certain level of natural talent has to go along with all that hard work.
Yup.
Incidentally, I've used the baseball comparison in the past, and once worked out that statistically, writing for a living is roughly comparable in difficulty/rarity to playing in the Major Leagues. Writing a major bestseller is roughly equivalent to winning the World Series.
Not sure the numbers still hold up, as there have been major changes in the publishing world since I worked it out.
The biggest difference is that baseball players tend to retire a lot younger.
<dform...@usyd.edu.au> wrote: >On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 23:13:57 +0100, Jerry Brown <je...@jwbrown.co.uk.RemoveThisBitToReply> wrote: >> On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 10:11:24 GMT, "David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)" >><dform...@usyd.edu.au> wrote:
>[...]
>>>When I was slumming around a remaindered book store I found a SF noval >>>that suffered from something simmler. Our author lavished great >>>detail on describing a scout master's unform down to his gortex shoe >>>uppers. And then spent a single line to tell us about his near miss >>>with a meteor.
>> If you can find it again, that quote sounds worth forwarding to Dave >> Langford's Ansible for inclusion in next month's Thog's Masterclass.
>It is "Limbo II The Final Chapter" by Andy Secombe
<snip>
Thanks, David.
Forwarded to Ansible.
Jerry Brown -- A cat may look at a king (but probably won't bother)
On 2008-07-07 05:48:53 -0700, "David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)" <dform...@usyd.edu.au> said:
> The rest of the noval is no better. There is no cliche left unused, > no plot twist left untelegraphed and few sentences unmolested by the > collar splice.
What is a collar splice?
I did a Google search for the term, but only found it as craft-writing terminology in your post. But it sounds rather specific, so I'm interested in what it means.
>> The rest of the noval is no better. There is no cliche left unused, >> no plot twist left untelegraphed and few sentences unmolested by the >> collar splice.
On 2008-07-08 13:08:27 -0700, David Johnston <da...@block.net> said:
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 12:34:57 -0700, Kurt Busiek <k...@busiek.comics> > wrote:
>> On 2008-07-07 05:48:53 -0700, "David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)" >> <dform...@usyd.edu.au> said:
>>> The rest of the noval is no better. There is no cliche left unused, >>> no plot twist left untelegraphed and few sentences unmolested by the >>> collar splice.
>> What is a collar splice?
> Sounds like a brainfart for comma splice.
That would be sadly mundane. "Collar splice" has so much promise!
Also, there are no comma splices in the fragment posted, unless you count "It's more than a way of life, it's a vocation." At least not as I understand them -- two independent clauses that could function as sentences on their own, stitched together with a comma rather than a semicolon.
There are commas aplenty, and sentences weighted down with too many dependent clauses, but the clauses are either dependent, or use a conjuction like "and."
