Watched Phil Gordons DVD via Net Flix. Personally, it was a waste of my time but I think it would be good for a newer player. Anyway I got to thinking about something. I often hear players, even pro's say they "learn something new everytime they play". Does anyone agree with this statement?
I don't feel like I've learned anything in a long time. To me, poker, more specificaly hold em, is a pretty simple game. The math part is easy enough to learn and you just keep running into the same problems (ie am I getting the odds to chase my draw?) over and over again. It becomes automatic.
There are a handful of set plays you can run (squeeze play, etc). In tournaments your stack size dictates a lot of your play. Play position, play the player. Play big pots with big hands, small pots with small hands ie. don't go broke with a pair. Mix up your play..etc, etc, etc.
Im not saying I'm a great player or that I know everything there is to know about poker but at the same time isn't it really all about as simple as I've put it? I think what makes the great players great is their ability to consistently play the right way (don't tilt), occasionally pull off a very creative play, and much more than anything READ PEOPLE and figure out their holdings.
Your hubris is laughable. The absolutely greatest poker players in the world still have a lot to learn about the game. If you're not getting better, then you are getting worse.
From my own perspective, I know that I make mistakes every time I play. After every single session, I find myself thinking "How could I have re-done this or that?" This doesn't mean that I'm making catastrophic, bankroll crushing mistakes. But, for example, if I have the nuts, and if I bet $50, and my opponent calls, but he would have called $55, then technically I have made a mistake. Phil Ivey has even said that he has yet to have a completely mistake-free session in his life.
I often find myself making the correct decision in a hand, and realize that as recently as a few months ago, I would not have made that same decision.
More hours at the table means more experience, and for a dedicated player, more experience leads to a continuously higher proportion of correct decisions. Perfect poker is impossible, but the pursuit of it is the only way to improve. And there is not a poker player on the planet that cannot improve their game by leaps and bounds.
-ikabopo-
" I learn something new everytime I play"
Group: rec.gambling.poker Date: Fri, Nov 21, 2008, 2:20pm (EST-3) From: michael_grov...@hotmail.com (Mr Bungle 34) Watched Phil Gordons DVD via Net Flix. Personally, it was a waste of my time but I think it would be good for a newer player. Anyway I got to thinking about something. I often hear players, even pro's say they "learn something new everytime they play". Does anyone agree with this statement? I don't feel like I've learned anything in a long time. To me, poker, more specificaly hold em, is a pretty simple game. The math part is easy enough to learn and you just keep running into the same problems (ie am I getting the odds to chase my draw?) over and over again. It becomes automatic. There are a handful of set plays you can run (squeeze play, etc). In tournaments your stack size dictates a lot of your play. Play position, play the player. Play big pots with big hands, small pots with small hands ie. don't go broke with a pair. Mix up your play..etc, etc, etc. Im not saying I'm a great player or that I know everything there is to know about poker but at the same time isn't it really all about as simple as I've put it? I think what makes the great players great is their ability to consistently play the right way (don't tilt), occasionally pull off a very creative play, and much more than anything READ PEOPLE and figure out their holdings. Am I right or what?
> Your hubris is laughable. The absolutely greatest poker players in the > world still have a lot to learn about the game. If you're not getting > better, then you are getting worse.
> From my own perspective, I know that I make mistakes every time I play. > After every single session, I find myself thinking "How could I have > re-done this or that?" This doesn't mean that I'm making catastrophic, > bankroll crushing mistakes. But, for example, if I have the nuts, and > if I bet $50, and my opponent calls, but he would have called $55, then > technically I have made a mistake. Phil Ivey has even said that he has > yet to have a completely mistake-free session in his life.
> I often find myself making the correct decision in a hand, and realize > that as recently as a few months ago, I would not have made that same > decision.
> More hours at the table means more experience, and for a dedicated > player, more experience leads to a continuously higher proportion of > correct decisions. Perfect poker is impossible, but the pursuit of it > is the only way to improve. And there is not a poker player on the > planet that cannot improve their game by leaps and bounds.
> -ikabopo-
> " I learn something new everytime I play"
> Group: rec.gambling.poker Date: Fri, Nov 21, 2008, 2:20pm (EST-3) From: > michael_grov...@hotmail.com (Mr Bungle 34) > Watched Phil Gordons DVD via Net Flix. Personally, it was a waste of my > time but I think it would be good for a newer player. Anyway I got to > thinking about something. I often hear players, even pro's say they > "learn something new everytime they play". Does anyone agree with this > statement? > I don't feel like I've learned anything in a long time. To me, > poker, more specificaly hold em, is a pretty simple game. The math part > is easy enough to learn and you just keep running into the same problems > (ie am I getting the odds to chase my draw?) over and over again. It > becomes automatic. > There are a handful of set plays you can run (squeeze play, etc). In > tournaments your stack size dictates a lot of your play. Play > position, play the player. Play big pots with big hands, small pots > with small hands ie. don't go broke with a pair. Mix up your > play..etc, etc, etc. > Im not saying I'm a great player or that I know everything there is to > know about poker but at the same time isn't it really all about as > simple as I've put it? I think what makes the great players great is > their ability to consistently play the right way (don't tilt), > occasionally pull off a very creative play, and much more than anything > READ PEOPLE and figure out their holdings. > Am I right or what?
I wasn't talking about playing pefect poker or those nuanced questions and decisions that you will never really know the answer to like if you could have gotten a call if you had bet 10% more on a specific hand or whatnot. Someone can throw up a hand history and ask if they played it right and get back a variety of replies with more than one of them being correct because it's not an exact science and sometimes there is a very fine line between making a bold great play or a horrific donk move, mainly depending on the outcome of the hand. When Matasow pushes someone of the pot with rags he made a great play but when he gets caught it's the Matasow blow up.
I was talking about broad strokes. Things that when you learn them, the game takes on a whole new dimension. An example for me is when I read Harrington along time ago and stumbled upon M and Q and how to play your short stack in the various zones. That was an awakening and I became a much better player as soon as I learned it. Early on I had a lot of those moments but not anymore.
One mistake I routinley make is betting the river when I shouldn't and it's an area I'm sure I will get better at in time and someday I will look back in amusement on how often I made bad river bets but all in all each session feels kind of the same anymore. There are the bad players, a whole lot of players that are about as skilled as me wherein it becomes a game of who is luckier/catching better cards. Then from time to time I come across a player who is simply worlds better than me and I get outright dominated (and if I moved up in limits I know I would find a lot more of them). At any rate, I just don't feel like this qualifies as learning something every day...
"- ikabopo -" <ikab...@webtv.net> wrote in message news:28735-4927432B-2745@storefull-3113.bay.webtv.net... Your hubris is laughable. The absolutely greatest poker players in the world still have a lot to learn about the game. If you're not getting better, then you are getting worse.
From my own perspective, I know that I make mistakes every time I play. After every single session, I find myself thinking "How could I have re-done this or that?" This doesn't mean that I'm making catastrophic, bankroll crushing mistakes. But, for example, if I have the nuts, and if I bet $50, and my opponent calls, but he would have called $55, then technically I have made a mistake. Phil Ivey has even said that he has yet to have a completely mistake-free session in his life.
I often find myself making the correct decision in a hand, and realize that as recently as a few months ago, I would not have made that same decision.
More hours at the table means more experience, and for a dedicated player, more experience leads to a continuously higher proportion of correct decisions. Perfect poker is impossible, but the pursuit of it is the only way to improve. And there is not a poker player on the planet that cannot improve their game by leaps and bounds.
> Watched Phil Gordons DVD via Net Flix. Personally, it was a waste of > my time but I think it would be good for a newer player. Anyway I got > to thinking about something. I often hear players, even pro's say they > "learn something new everytime they play". Does anyone agree with this > statement?
> I don't feel like I've learned anything in a long time. To me, poker, > more specificaly hold em, is a pretty simple game. The math part is > easy enough to learn and you just keep running into the same problems > (ie am I getting the odds to chase my draw?) over and over again. It > becomes automatic.
> There are a handful of set plays you can run (squeeze play, etc). In > tournaments your stack size dictates a lot of your play. Play > position, play the player. Play big pots with big hands, small pots > with small hands ie. don't go broke with a pair. Mix up your > play..etc, etc, etc.
> Im not saying I'm a great player or that I know everything there is to > know about poker but at the same time isn't it really all about as > simple as I've put it? I think what makes the great players great is > their ability to consistently play the right way (don't tilt), > occasionally pull off a very creative play, and much more than > anything READ PEOPLE and figure out their holdings.
> Am I right or what?
You can always learn some thing new about your poker opponents. More important, you can always learn some thing new about your greatest opponent - yourself.
Thanks for the props. I lurk mostly, but sometimes I throw out a troll, or some math info, or some poker content. I'm just a math lecturer at a university by day, and a part-time poker pro by night. Live 1/2 and 2/5 NLHE, no online stuff, no other games.
Yes, my screen name is dumb. It's a childhood nonsense word of some friends and mine. If you told you what it meant, you'd really think it was dumb.
I wish there was more poker discussion on here, and I don't mean garbage like how to play K9o in .05/.10 NLHE. More poker philosophy stuff would be great. Maybe I'll write an article every once in a while to try to spur the discussion. Anyone else reading this should try to do the same. Don't just post hand histories; write an article about "position" or write an article about "QQ -- strengths and weaknesses." I'd love to see what people think about different poker topics.
-ikabopo-
Re: " I learn something new everytime I play"
Group: rec.gambling.poker Date: Fri, Nov 21, 2008, 4:50pm (EST-3) From: paulpopin...@sbcglobal.net (Paul Popinjay) "- ikabopo -" <ikab...@webtv.net> wrote in message news:28735-4927432B-2745@storefull-3113.bay.webtv.net... Your hubris is laughable. The absolutely greatest poker players in the world still have a lot to learn about the game. If you're not getting better, then you are getting worse. From my own perspective, I know that I make mistakes every time I play. After every single session, I find myself thinking "How could I have re-done this or that?" This doesn't mean that I'm making catastrophic, bankroll crushing mistakes. But, for example, if I have the nuts, and if I bet $50, and my opponent calls, but he would have called $55, then technically I have made a mistake. Phil Ivey has even said that he has yet to have a completely mistake-free session in his life. I often find myself making the correct decision in a hand, and realize that as recently as a few months ago, I would not have made that same decision. More hours at the table means more experience, and for a dedicated player, more experience leads to a continuously higher proportion of correct decisions. Perfect poker is impossible, but the pursuit of it is the only way to improve. And there is not a poker player on the planet that cannot improve their game by leaps and bounds. -ikabopo- ---------------------------------------------- Pretty good post, ikabopo! I don't know who the fuck you are, ikabopo, but this really was a good post. An excellent post! By the way, that's a dumb screen name. Check MINE out! -Paul Popinjay
